The Hybrid Hub Podcast
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The Hybrid Hub Podcast
Shaping the Church's Role: Mental Health, Youth and Inclusivity
Ever thought about why the church's reputation seems to be hanging by a thread despite its numerous good deeds? Is it the narrative that society has shaped, focusing more on bad news than the good? This episode unravels our intriguing journey in the church; from my nerve-wracking transition from Roman Catholicism to Pentecostalism, to the growth of our faith and personal relationships with God.
Venturing deeper, we examine the church's role in society and its reputation. We share insights on how the negative narrative in the media impacts the church's image and debate on the opportunities available to share its good news. We also spotlight the current state of the church, discussing the unfortunate power abuse within and how it's tainting the church's perception. On a brighter note, we also look at the church as a family unit and how it helps individuals develop personally. Explore with us the myriad ways the church can shield young ones from harmful scenarios and build a secure environment for everyone.
In a world that often neglects the good for the bad, we shed light on the need for inclusion, respect, and the creation of a kid-friendly environment within the church. We focus on improving our weekly podcast to keep you up-to-date with the latest topics affecting the church and society. Lastly, we promise not to shy away from tough conversations, and we eagerly seek your input in our quest to change the narrative and shape a new perspective of the church. Join us on this enlightening journey, as we strive to bring forth the good news from the church that often goes unnoticed.
Hi guys, hi everyone. How are you doing? I'm good. How are you doing? I'm alright. I mean, it's been a minute. We've been a bit off, schedules have been scheduling getting us away from our podcast, but I guess we are back and we're going to be consistent this time round.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's life. So this is the THH podcast, isn't it?
Speaker 1:We are the hybrid podcast. We dive into different topics, trending topics. We discuss things that are going on in the news. It can be football, it can be fashion, it can be anything in the media space. We dive into football. We are both football fanatics. I support Manchester United and you are.
Speaker 2:And Arsenal fan.
Speaker 1:Yes, so last weekend's game I literally wanted to cry because my whole house turned against me during the game and it was a very depressing match to watch.
Speaker 2:Yes, united played well. They tried their best.
Speaker 1:It wasn't just their day, don't try to sugar-cott this, because when you guys were winning, you didn't think about saying, oh, my new guys played well. No, you were like ha ha ha ha, we won this game. We won this game. You guys were chanting all sorts of things. Man, it was a rough Sunday, was it Sunday?
Speaker 2:Yeah, was it Sunday?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a rough Sunday afternoon, I would say, but nevertheless, what's on the agenda for today?
Speaker 2:So today we are actually talking about our experiences in the church.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've both been church. Are we churchgoers or are we church people? What do we call ourselves? I think we're Christians. I wouldn't say I'm a churchgoer, I'm a believer.
Speaker 2:I'm a Christian. I grew up, you know, my family's parents are Christians. But beyond that, I also have my own belief and also trust in God. I have to carve out my own relationship with God.
Speaker 1:I think that's good, though, because I came from a different background, so I was, I would say, a Roman Catholic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:From birth and when I got married I then converted into a redeemed Christian. Yeah, well, I have two sides of the coin. I would say. So for me it's been a bit. Yeah, it's been two different places. So I mean, yeah, I think they I don't want to lie, but I think I enjoyed being like worshiping as a Roman Catholic because it was. I wouldn't say it was easier, but it was more comfortable for me.
Speaker 2:For you as a person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going to. I think we'll dive into why I'm saying that. But you know I have my reasons. I think when I was, when I was attending, like you know, a Catholic church, it wasn't. It had nothing to do with how you're dressed, how you look. I mean we dressed well for church, but it was not like a fashion thing, Like you come as you are and it's okay. But as I got older and attended, like obviously, redeemed churches and that's a totally different book entirely for me.
Speaker 1:So you want to say like Pentecostal yeah yeah, because I, to be honest, every Sunday was nerve-wracking for me getting ready on a Sunday morning and it wasn't the same when I used to attend a Roman Catholic church. So I would wear my pair of jeans and I'd talk and I'd stop and off the church I'd go.
Speaker 2:So would you say you struggled when you joined like a Pentecostal, like a redeemed church of Christ. You kind of struggled with the routines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not about routines for me, it's there. They have, you know, their special days, like, for example, thanksgiving service and all those things where you know you have to make that people make.
Speaker 1:I don't say you have to, but I feel like everybody makes that extra effort to look really really you know, put together and you know how it is in, you know those kind of spaces, and I found it very nerve-wracking and, for me personally, I think it took away my like, it took the experience away from me. I can say that I have grown, as you know, as a believer when I converted, but I think I found it quite difficult, to be honest. Yeah, just getting used to the different things, events and conferences that were going on in the churches and, yeah, because you know, with a Catholic, my church, yeah, it's the same thing every year.
Speaker 1:You get what I mean, like we have our you know the October month. Where it's? They say the Rosary, we've got their Easter period. Things do not change, things are. I can as young as I was attending a Catholic school and a church when I was younger. Things have always been the same. The only thing that was different in Uganda is that the service was actually in my language. But other than that, everything, the practices, everything is the same.
Speaker 2:So for you as a person right now, do you think you'll prefer to go back as like, just to be your Roman Catholic and just go back?
Speaker 1:I wouldn't because, to be honest, I wouldn't say that because that was part of like. That was a journey in my life that I enjoyed. However, I think although I would I'll say to you obviously I was it was nerve-wracking for me and all the rest when I started attending, like Pentecostal churches. But I have also grown a lot in the experience of being in a Pentecostal church with you know the differences. I don't know if we should dive into the differences, but I feel like even being like in a Catholic church, the Bible's kind of red for us. But you know, in Pentecostal churches you always read your Bible yourself.
Speaker 1:I have grown, my faith has actually grown. When I converted and would I say I'm a more of a believer now. Yes, but I think the older I have become, the more I have come to understand that I actually have to have my personal relationship with God, like it's not a thing where anybody's going to forge ahead for me. You know, like when I started out I always believed. Like once, you know, the priest is praying, that's it, okay. Do you get what I mean? Like oh, father, the Rev is praying, that's it, that we're done.
Speaker 1:But being in a Pentecostal church, I got that benefit of understanding that, yes, they are overseeing over us yes but you as an individual, the power that you have in your tongue, is what is going to shift things around you. People can help you and pray for you, but you can't be a lazy Christian and expect people to pray for you too, for when you're going through trials and tribulations, you get what I'm coming from yeah, so yeah, how about you? Like I know you, you were a church church boy, like church boy to a church man. So how did? How was your journey?
Speaker 2:because I know you've attended like different churches and all but yeah, I would say majorly for the majority of my life.
Speaker 1:I think I've attended one church more.
Speaker 2:I mean, if I had to think about when I was much younger, maybe when I was like, maybe from, let's say, zero to like twelve, alright, so obviously with my parents, I have to go with my mom and my dad church. But I would say, since I became a teenager, more, yeah, I've actually attended a Pentecostal. I used to be a Baptist, through my parent, I was born a Baptist, so, yeah, so we used to go to a Baptist church and then I think around maybe maybe 13, 14, and I think you know right now, part of our Pentecostal right for me personally, I think I mean it's not like. I think I really really enjoyed my, like my Christian journey when I was a teenager, with a church that I attended because we had so much fun, we have so much program, we have activity that we that we do every now and then and we just have this bond and we're building something. We have people that motivate us, we have people that we look up to. It was fun every single time that we cannot have a program or even have ordinary meetings. We have, I think we have meetings like maybe two Saturdays every month or I can't remember, or maybe one Saturday every month, but those even meetings we look forward to eat and I really, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:I think, you know, when I was a Baptist, being a Baptist was okay, but because I used to follow my parents you know we're so you know we couldn't do much like you, just follow your parent they put you maybe in Sunday school and I was so for me, church was like a place of like you just. But as I got to Pentecostal, then that was when I actually exploded and I was part of the movement for like that time, like radical for Christ. You know, like I used to be, like I used to do a lot of evangelism as well.
Speaker 2:Then you know, because then in school I just wanted to tell people, I just wanted to show people that, look, you can still come to God as who you are. You know, because we always had this perception of people judging people and all like you know you have to be righteous to be in church.
Speaker 1:You have to be peace.
Speaker 2:You have to be that. So my own message was always to people then I look, god wants you as you are and you can always, you know, be yourself and then, you know, preach people. That did all that and so for me, I mean, church was an interesting place, was a place of growth for me, mentally, physically, spiritually and, like I said again, I had so much fun and yeah, that was it, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So sometimes I wish I could go back like and just enjoy those times. But you know it's not always possible. But yeah but one of the things I wanted to talk about is you know, why is it that we hear so much of negativity? Because why, when I was growing up, right we hear less of negativity about the church. But I'm not saying those things did not exist and I'm not saying that people, we, you know that different stories of people being abused we've been in a little what I might put.
Speaker 2:I want to bring out is I know that these things happen, like from what we've heard and all that, but why don't people magnify the good things that happen?
Speaker 2:the church I know a lot of people who are not even Christians but they were transformed in church, even even not true probably been a crucible. There were Muslims or the other religions. They came into the church and you know they go, you know transform through, probably using their method, instrument to different things I mean different things. The church has done a lot of things for a lot of people yeah, but don't you you know you?
Speaker 1:you ask that. Why don't we talk about? I think it's because bad news or bad publicity always sells, isn't it so? And the good the people that do gain, like, for example, our stories, like nobody really knows your story unless they're very close to you. Do you understand where I'm coming from? So, and where do the opportunities come from for people to talk about how good the church is and how great church is? They're not there because it's the bad stuff that you would. You're always going to catch on the gossip platforms, the social media platforms. It's like society's always ready to deal with the like to welcome the bad news than the good news, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:And I also feel like, personally, this might sound somehow, but church is not what church used to be. A lot of things have changed in church, so we do say, oh okay, people are saying bad things about church, but these people that are the head of the church, they are put like we say, they are anointed, they are picked, they are chosen by God to care for their communities, to support people under them. But the reality of it in most churches that's not what's happening and that's why people are so quick to jump on the wagon when something bad that's happening in church gets exposed, because it's like church should be, like a safe space. It should be a community. It should not only be a space where you go to pray, but a space where you build good friendships, a community that is there for one another.
Speaker 1:But I don't think church is the way it used to be and that's why it's so easy. And I don't even say it's easy. I think even people that say this or bring out this news they're not comfortable talking about these things. But they have to talk about these things because some leaders feel that they're untouchable, because they go back to the Bible verse of how is it? Is it touched? They are no longer over the case?
Speaker 2:maybe yes.
Speaker 1:No harm. So it's like they use that scripture to do wrong. I worry because I mean we have benefited from what church can do. But what is going to happen for the generations coming up? You know what's going to happen Because it's what they're going to see. And right now, children are very, they're very, accessible. They have access to anything. They have access to social media. They have access to anything that they want. So how are you or how are we, as a people, going to sit there and be like, oh, you need to attend church. Church is good for you. You know the benefits of church is this and that, and they're seeing the totally opposite on the outside.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I'm not saying that the church is not a guilty of certain things. My point still remains that there's a lot of good things that the church is doing in our community. I've seen churches building hospitals. I've seen churches. You know creating businesses, helping entrepreneurs, helping the Sikh. You know building shelters, doing all these things right, but we don't get to see these things in the news.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but that's what I said bad publicity cells People don't really care about, not that they don't care, but nobody's going to put out. Like because bad publicity is gossip, no, but like if you're doing something good, they're not going to gossip about it. Do you understand where I'm coming from? Yes, I get you. Yes, so if we want.
Speaker 2:But why are we like that? Why? Why shouldn't we say why the same way we call out? I've seen a lot of people call out pastors, a lot of people call out churches for doing this, but why don't they say people call out the same churches and whatever when to do something good? I don't see you can see 100 podcasts on probably a pastor doing something wrong, or 1000 podcasts on because of a church, particularly the way they behave, but I do not see the same energy when we do get the news of these churches doing good things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's the thing it's like where are you going to put these good news? Where?
Speaker 2:does it fit in society.
Speaker 1:It doesn't, because the reality of it that's what I'm saying to you what's, whatever's out there is, what is is going, people are people don't. People are not going to listen to. Or you know, the pastor my one pastor building lovely church, or the past is taking, you know, supporting this, often to support children that don't have parents, and it's not something that, although it should be, you know, shouted on the mountain tops, it's not something that is really there. Like I'll keep going back to what I'm telling you and I want it to sink in bad publicity cells, but how do we change this narrative? We, like, we as a people, like obviously me and you. Now, what are we doing? Because we are talking about this? But what are we doing to change the narrative? Because it starts with us, we're supporting the problem, well and good, but what are we doing about it? Because you, it's your, the influence, like people kind of feel like, oh, you have to have maybe like a hundred K subscribers to make a difference, but that's not how it works. With your 20 subscribers, with your 20 followers, a hundred followers, your message can be out there.
Speaker 1:So, personally, when I used to be very active in church, that's what I used to do Like cause for me. Church has been good to me. I can never sit there and I've had my abs and down in church, but the good has been good and, regardless of what the bad was for me in church, whenever I was in service, after my service, I would post. You know, I will post about what's happening with my church. I will post what is what was preached that Sunday. I would just to encourage someone, someone out there.
Speaker 1:But we have to also, as a people, create these platforms where this, this is good, like where things that are, you know, great things that are being done in church, are publicized. Until we get to that space, which I struggled to understand because I always feel like this is my personal opinion. I don't know how other people feel, but I feel like people are really going through like life right now, like life is life thing, as you can hear me say it. A lot of things are happening to people and, you know, right now, I think, is the best time for churches to stand up and back these people and be there for people, because people are struggling, like in a lot of not even just African countries, even here, where we are, where we are living right now. People you know, if you find a lot of homeless people, you find people are struggling.
Speaker 1:There's no jobs, there's no like enough, even if you're working, the money is not enough to give you what you need. And some people can say we'll get a better job. But where are the better jobs? Exactly where are the better jobs? I mean, my experience is like you know.
Speaker 1:I've been trying to find another job, like to convert in my career, and it's been. I've done the training and everything, and it's been a year and I still haven't gotten what I'm looking for. So, and I am aggressive when I need to be, you know, I am aggressive, I am looking, I am working on my CV, I am what, making sure my cover letters stand out, but that's not. You know what I mean. So if I've got the opportunities and I still have another job, I could actually go back to my own job and be okay. But you know when you need a difference, when life changes, you have to change. But I just feel like right now, yes, church is not publicized the way it should be, but we, we have to be honest. They there for the narrative to change. We have to make a difference and in order for us to make a difference, we have to speak the good that we have, that we know about church.
Speaker 1:Some people may not have experience something. You might post something and say, oh, wow, when I was growing up, my church was this, was that right now, my church has built this, there's a hospital. Like you say that, your church, your church, where you grew up, they have a hospital where it treats people at the cheaper price and and which is good, because this is what we need in like Africa as well. But unfortunately somebody else was standing say, well, when I was in that church, do you get what? I mean?
Speaker 1:Not everybody's gonna have the same experience and for me personally, what I'm seeing a lot of right now in church and unfortunately it's it makes my blood. But these people that are in authority this is authority. This it's a very big office to be in as a you know ahead of the church and you know a pastor and a minister in the church. Those positions are very high, right and like the way you like I feel like the way you take your normal, your day-to-day job when you're in office is the same way, and it's like 10 times more important for you to do right by these people, because if we do right, we will not be seeing what we're seeing right now in the media yeah, you know, I agree with that and taking advantage of people, you know, abusing people under you.
Speaker 1:I mean, I see a lot of videos and you show me most of this stuff on your time because you know you're a Twitter person. I'm not really on Twitter that much, but you see a lot of things on Twitter about church and you know, even you get frustrated and you're like these people are taking the make out of church.
Speaker 1:But this is what's happening yes people that I've given I've been put in that place are abusing their position and it's making church look like it's not a good environment. I mean I, when I was going up, church was community right yeah was for me. I was a family. It's a family unit, you know we.
Speaker 2:We grew up like a family, like yeah, but we back then, like we, I mean, it was just total fun it's, it's and it's a lot, and even it may.
Speaker 1:It gave you that sense of belonging, like you belong somewhere. You belong to this particular church. Everybody, you know you when you say I attend this church now, yeah, yeah, that's, you know. And he helped people develop personally and things like that. But right now I don't think it's the same maybe I'll tell you something.
Speaker 2:I have friends when I was growing up, right? Yeah, that could have ended up in court. Is him like? Or end up being into gangs and different stuff, right?
Speaker 2:yeah it was church that helped transform this people and I still feel it feel like, even in this country where we are right now, if the, if we see the church in the way we should see, that the church is doing what it should do, I'm telling you there should be more, a lot of people, more like a lot of young people, should be more safer, and you know, out of the street. And all that because I know the church is doing a lot, you know, but I feel like, because the church is a place whereby people can come and they can get reform, they can get change, you know, they can put into activities, yeah, and I feel like for me personally, like having kids, that's something that makes me really anxious, because you know, you, there's so much you can do.
Speaker 1:And I say to my kids all the time yeah, I'm praying for you, but you've also got to, you know, pray for yourselves as well. Like so. I'm just like okay, so where do we go from here? Because you want your children to have the experiences that we had, but then I don't think that is what church is right now so let's talk about, I like few things that the church can do and we can do to change narrative.
Speaker 2:For you go first okay.
Speaker 1:So for me, personally, I'll like I'm going to battle bad and good, because I'm that type of person. I do you get what? I mean? I have to say what can be changed and in what can do you get what I'm coming from? So for me, like the thing about inclusion right and not, why you say inclusion?
Speaker 1:what? And not judgment, because some church is that I have because I've been to a few churches, you see. So there are some churches you go there and there's a lot of like little, little groups in the church, yes, and those groups that for me, church is not meant to be. Like that you get what I'm saying. So those groups, first of all, if you come in as an outsider, you see those groups, you'll not feel comfortable yeah, so I feel like I used to see that you get what I mean.
Speaker 1:So it's like first of all, you're a new person, you want to get, you want to start a fellow shipping in this place, but the little individual groups and they go off. And you know Me personally, that used to put me off. If I attend a church and I see all that going on here and there I'm like I know people say you're not attending church because of the people. But I have to feel safe and I have to feel comfortable and I have to feel welcomed Into the space.
Speaker 1:So if I don't feel that way, so I feel like churches have to do a lot more just to just Speak to their, because obviously there's people that for example the choir, and they have their individual groups and that's understandable, but it should be there's time for everything. So if they're having their meetings, whatever, that's fine, but in a time of service and that's going on, I don't really like. I don't really appreciate that as well, personally. So I feel like yeah, yeah, I mean. Yeah, inclusion is, I have, to feel welcomed.
Speaker 1:If I don't feel that way, there's a high chance you're not going to see me again you know, and people, and I also feel like we, like I've, yeah, like, sometimes people attend church but they don't want to be, you know, all out there, right? So I also feel like people have to respect people's Personalities and privacy. Somebody can just, they just want to come to church and pretty much know that they have somewhere to fellowship and you don't really have. You know, they don't want people to be so much in their business. You get what I mean. So it's also Respecting the boundaries. Whilst we're in church, although we are, we want to like, key, key and be friendly. We also need to understand people have Boundaries and differences and their own understanding than their beliefs as well. Yeah, so what you got to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just feel like Everybody could play part yeah and the part we could play is we should just have some form of energy closer to what we have If we see anything bad with the church. You know repost thing, retweet things, you know report things that happen and why they happen and how the church is going about them. Because I am sure there's a lot of churches. I mean they are bad churches. Sometimes, like when I say bad churches I mean everybody there is bad, but maybe in the out delights and oppression a lot of people just fell out, let down yeah so For me it is important to understand that.
Speaker 2:Look this situation right as it is we all as an individual. If you are a church goer or your believer, whatever, we still have a part to play in making sure we do the right thing, and Whenever we see any good news, any good thing in church, we should all put the same energy on it and make sure that it gets to where it needs to get to.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean, I Don't know.
Speaker 1:You know I I love church and I'm not somebody that wants to Like, say things that are negative about church.
Speaker 1:But so another thing that I could think they could, you know, we can all improve on as individuals, as a church, as a people, would just to invest in, like, kid Friendly environments. So I know there's some churches that have those days like there's a church that we know that they're very, very good with that, in the sense that they invest more in the children and the adults, which is, I think that that's where we should be as a nation. Like the children are the the future right, they are what they are, who are going to take over. So I think it's very important to invest in them and with that, I feel like that will reduce Crime. It reduces seeing kids walking on the streets at random times of the night, it reduce kids Finding themselves in bad, you know, in bad places at bad times and you know that's kind of stuff. So I think more investment in church for children would also be a positive for us to do better as the people and as churchgoers.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 2:So I think we've, you know, said a lot today and and so we've talked about we just talk about a few things that can be done.
Speaker 2:You know, and I just want to put this out, we are not here to, we're not here supporting the bad things that is happening in church, like abuse, or we are not saying, you know, if people are guilty or people are in that situation, they should speak out, and you know the church will face the consequences or whoever is in charge.
Speaker 2:But we are just saying that, yes, every now and then, frequently, will hear you hear good, bad things about church, about this, about that, but when the same church do good things, we do not get to hear them. So we just Coming out here to say how Can we make sure we do better than we are doing currently? So For me, I think we've covered most of the areas, but what would you like to have in terms of the role of the church? And you know how even the church can do more, like I wanted to add to what you said before. I switched To the fact that most churches, especially black churches, they do not have enough facilities for the children's church which I like it, and Because everybody want to invest in it, in the adult church, because you know that.
Speaker 2:You know that's those are. You know those are the people, but children are very important, like you said. So I feel like churches should. Invest more in the children and making sure that you know they get all these facilities and equipment they didn't need and I also feel like Like leaders need to know their people, like spend, get, like organizing different events where Like a retreat, something of that sort to actually get to know Different people, not just on a basis of just church, but just in general, just to understand people.
Speaker 1:And I feel like with church as well. I don't know how I've not been to so many churches, but I feel like some churches they need to have like things like um, for example, I would say like maybe you know how we have like mental well-being at work. I think that's also needed in church. So, because there's a lot of people that are broken, not only broken from just, maybe, experiences in different churches or experiences in life, but they are mentally, they are broken and they need that support. They might get up support outside, but an environment where they are, they need that extra support and they need to feel like I can actually get the support from my church as well, and that's, I think, something as well that is lacking in churches that support from you know, people's mental health and just acknowledging and understanding that and judging those people exactly, but I just feel like there needs to be that space where people's mental health is a priority.
Speaker 1:Because you know you talk to someone, god forbid the next day you hear something else has happened. So it's very important and if you're, you know you're overseeing a church. You should be able to know your members and understand your members and even if it's not you, the leader yourself, you should be able to put people in those spaces that you trust are not going to abuse that space and things that are discussed are actually very private and confidential and left. Are that? Because, at the end of the day, it takes a lot for somebody to say how they feel, or or they are struggling or they feel, you know, like giving up, they're feeling depressed. It takes a lot for somebody to come out and if somebody is crying out to you in church and you know you don't take the right steps to help them or to signpost them to the right places and you know, do that, check up and make sure they're okay then why are? Why are we in these spaces? Why? Why is church church if it's not doing what it needs to do for people?
Speaker 1:you know, I mean, that's my two cents on it you know, people can agree to disagree, but I feel we need to do better. We really, really need to do better.
Speaker 2:We need to do better. I agree with you completely, yeah, so I think that's it for this week yeah, that's it, guys.
Speaker 1:I mean, I just wanted to say I know we've been gone, for is it two weeks or three weeks?
Speaker 1:yes, two weeks, yeah, but just a quick reminder. We are here every week, every monday, and we aim to bring you the latest trending topics, anything that is out there that is a hot topic that's being discussed, there's a chance we will discuss it and then dive into our topic for that day. So we would urge people to check us out on our platform, on all the podcast platforms. We don't have a social media platform specifically, and it's a decision we have made, not too, but you can meet us, find us on any of the um, what you call it podcast platforms and you can subscribe and listen to what we've done before and we'll keep you guys going. So until next time, guys, stay blessed.